Smallholders - on countdown

Smallholders, the pets and garden centre of  113-117, Woodgrange Road, has had a brief reprieve from its impending closure.

Smallholders, today

Earlier this summer, Kevin Shaw, the shop's proprietor, was given three months notice to quit the premises, as his lease was nearing its end. Kevin was able to amiably negotiate a year's extension from the leaseholder, and is now on the look-out for new premises, from next September.

Smallholders - like Barry's, the butcher and Websters, the iron mongers - has been one of the fixtures on the Woodgrange/Woodford Road strip for decades, offering a retail plus professional advice and experience for relevant E7 and beyond shoppers.

The outlet was originally established by John Frost in 1948. His family still has the freehold on the property and  is looking to sell, as part of tidying up his business affairs.

Originally from Ridley Road, Kevin joined John, as a 13-year old "Saturday boy" in 1985, and has been working at the shop ever since - apart from an unsuccessful five month stint,  in the late 80's, as a pipefitter. Kevin took over as proprietor in 1999, and has since transformed the business.

Kevin at work

The shop's original main selling points were pets and plants, but times have changed and the business focus has changed with them. Kevin sells few live pets, these days - there isn't the demand, and only has a couple of busy times a year on the "plant" side now.

The sale of live animals is tightly controlled by legislation, and inspected regularly by local authority animal inspectors.  Kevin and his shop have never had problems on this front, but he says the demand for pet animals has declined locally because of the changing demographic profile of the area, and the fact that so many Forest Gate people live in flats, these days.

When plants were bigger business

He has a much greater turn-over of pet food and toys than he does for animals they are aimed at. But even here, he suffers from strong competition from pet supermarkets. He makes only pennies from packages of pet food, and a ruthless accountant would advise him to discontinue the lines - as they take up too much space for too little reward. He continues with them, though, mainly as a service to long-standing customers.

Pet supplies - not profitable lines; poor
financial returns on considerable shelf space

His plant business suffers now from competition from large garden centres, although his Christmas tree offers are good value and save a transport problems for local purchasers.  The quality of his  plant seedlings in the summer, provides him with a reasonable stream of business. As far as fresh flowers are concerned, he is squeezed at one end of the market by the cheap bunches from supermarkets and petrol stations and at the more exotic and high end, by florists, such as Molly and Bill's a little further along the road.

Kevin's major business, these days, is in the area of exotic fish - as a visit to his website will testify. He reckons it now accounts for 70% of his turnover. A visit inside, and you'll soon find out why.  It almost feels as if you have stepped into an aquarium!

From the website: some of the fish on offer

Such has been the success of the "fishy business" that Kevin has almost doubled the floor space of the shop, since he first took over, those 19 years ago, with most of the additional space occupied by tanks of exotic fish.

They have become fashionable, and Kevin is able to get them from almost all over the world - on demand.  Importing of fish is, of course, subject to animal welfare and health and hygiene restrictions - the fish have to go through a quarantine period having entered the UK, for example. And Kevin knows his way around these complexities.

Smallholders will be homeless in a year, unless Kevin can find another shop.  He admits he's been well treated by his former boss and present landlord, and is grateful for the support he has received.

 But rental of an equivalent space locally will cost in excess of £20k per year, before taking into account business rates, fuel bills and the other overheads.  Sums like this are simply unaffordable, even without taking into consideration the limitations on trade imposed by parking restrictions on shopping streets in Newham.

Almost an aquarium today:
exotic fish and supplies by the tank load

So - why doesn't Kevin go down the road of so many of Forest Gate's other innovative retailers - and get a railway arch? The problem, he says, would be the vibrations from the trains as they pass, they would disturb, frighten and in extreme cases, possibly kill the fish.

Kevin is having to look further afield for an affordable relocation. Further into Essex is an option - as Barry the butcher tried, before returning to Forest Gate. Kevin could offer a free delivery service on appropriate orders to local customers, should he move further east.  But, as Barry discovered, that can be easier said than done.

Hurry down - while stocks last!

If Kevin has less than a year to go, give him a good send off. A Christmas tree there, in December, perhaps? A new interest in exotic fish? Or planting out his seedlings next summer - as a fond farewell?

Tollgate or not Tollgate?

The origins of our district's name are fairly obvious and well known - the details, less so.  In this article we attempt to piece together sometimes conflicting historic accounts to provide a likely, and perhaps controversial, version of the  full story  behind "the gate".

The Forest Gate was located roughly between what is now the Lord Lister clinic and the former Eagle and Child pub (now Woodgrange pharmacy) on Woodgrange Road.

Position of "the gate" today

There was no metalled road during its lifetime, simply a track - and "the gate",  was principally an attempt to prevent cattle straying from "The Forest of Essex" (the lower part of which is what we now know as Wanstead Flats) on to the meadows and orchards of the Woodgrange, or on to the main Colchester to London (now Romford) Road.

Forest Gate's earliest appearance, by name, in surviving records, appears to be in the mid seventeenth century, in the West Ham burial register, which refer to the internment of Martha Jordon, from "the house of William Hare of fforest gate ... Monday ye 9th of April 1655".

The next surviving reference seems to be almost 40 years later, in 1693, when officers of "His Majesty's Forest of Essex" were:

To suffer William Hopkins to enclose two acres near Wood Grange gate, within the said forest, and also give him licence to erect a dwelling house thereupon.

Eighteenth century maps appear to confirm the existence of "the gate".

The Survey Map of John Rocque (see below for an extract), published in 1746, somewhat confusingly calls Woodgrange Road, "The White Gate", and William Hopkins property between Woodgrange Farm and The Eagle and Child pub is labelled "The Red Gate", but the location of the forest gate does snot seem to be indicated!

The Forest Gate section of John
Rocque's 1746 map of Essex

Andre and Chapman's map (see below for a small detail), published some thirty years later, seems to show "the gate", close to the Eagle and Child pub.

Abstract from Andre and Chapman's map, 1777

A local family historian has discovered that "three tenements on the north side of the Eagle and Child in Epping Forest" were insured with Sun Fire Insurance, in 1837, by a Robert Clayworth, who was a poultry farmer of Whitechapel. It looks therefore, as if the area adjacent to "the gate" was farmed by poultry keepers, who sold their stock in the City's Leadenhall Market.

Martin Wallace, in his history of St Mark's church, published in 1986, says that the original gate was replaced in 1851 by the Lord of Woodgrange manor, who erected a new five-bar gate, together with a keeper's cottage - known as Forest House. 

The present article reproduces 6 drawings of "the gate" and its surrounds, but only the last of them shows the five-barred gate.  The others illustrate the earlier, rickety ,older, and perhaps, original one.

The Forest Gate (undated) - clearly
 a popular subject for local artists

Twentieth century commentators (see below) assert that it was not a toll-gate, and this version has become the received wisdom since.  But the evidence, published in a facsimilie of its original form for the first time here, seems to dispute this claim.

The 1851 census, for example (see extracts below) describes a 68 year-old Robert Baker, born in Dagenham , to be living at "Forest Gate Toll House" and as being a "toll keeper". Why the use of the word "toll" twice in this contemporaneous census entry if "the gate" in question were not a toll-gate?

1851 census transcript: Forest Gate Toll House, Robert Baker, Head, married, 68, Toll Keeper (born) Essex, Dagenham.  Also Mary Baker, wife, married, 66, Essex

Martin Wallace does not paint a very sympathetic picture of Baker, describing him as:

Being famous locally for his association with footpads, highwaymen, gypsies and poachers, who used barbaric traps to catch their prey.

According to Victoria County History of Essex  (1986):

(We) and several other authorities doubt if the Forest Gate was ever a toll gate. ... A draft Ordnance Survey about the same time (1851) places a "toll gate" across the road at that point. It is possible that, with the development of the neighbourhood tolls may have been temporarily charged for the upkeep of what became Woodgrange Road until the Local Board (ed: predecessor to West Ham Council) took over the highways  (ed: probably in the 1870's).

This would make complete sense - charging travellers for the use of a half decent road to and from the forest before there was a formal publicly funded mechanism for paying for the maintenance of public highways.

The 1851 pen and ink drawing, below, is titled "Ye olde toll gate"  - a strange name for a contemporary to give his work if "the gate" were not, in fact, a toll-gate.

1851 pen and ink drawing of "Ye Olde Toll Gate"

Another sketch of the old gate,
in a slightly worse condition

Another, undated, high resolution
 view - this time looking south

John Spencer Curwen (see here for details) wrote, in his recollections of life in Forest Gate and Upton, that:

I do not remember the gate ever being closed. It was set back against the wall of the cottage, but anyone who wished to could have closed it.

In my childhood (ed: the 1850's), when we dropped by, the woman in charge would come to the door and catch the penny we tossed her.

This extract does not prove "the gate" was a toll-gate, but why else would a passer-by throw money at a person standing next to it?

Unfortunately, Ordnance Survey maps of the period are not very illuminating.

The 1863 OS map of Forest Gate and district appears to be cut off just feet from where "the gate" was located - and so can't settle any controversy. A larger scale, 6" map, indicates what is now Woodgrange Road ran to the Eagle and Child, and not beyond suggesting that although not formally a "toll road", tolls were collected by the toll-gate keeper to pay for the upkeep of Woodgrange Road, from Romford road, to the pub.

The next event in "the gate's" history, for which records remain, is the earliest (only?) surviving photograph of it. The occasion was a visit of Princess Louise (Victoria's 6th child and 4th daughter) through the district around 1876, on her way to a charitable event in Essex.

The only (?) surviving photo of "the gate" location
 - unfortunately it is open!, c 1876 

The photo was taken before the Eagle and Child pub was re-fashioned, in 1896. The old pub is at the back of the photo and the building attached to it, in the foreground, was a butcher's shop - see below.

The gate is clearly open, but would have stretched from post, on the roadway, to the left of the photo to the lamp-post on the right.

Describing the scene twenty years later, in September 1896, the Forest Gate Weekly News wrote:

Only some twenty years ago the Eagle and Child was the hostelry of the district; its gardens, with summer houses and statuary were much sought out for rest and refreshments by persons passing by, or strolling through the forest.

1879 sketch of toll-gate house, with a row 
of early cottages behind. 
"The gate" unfortunately is not in view.
(nb - this caption amended on 14/05/18)
  

The paper gave credence to the existence of a toll-gate, in the same article, writing:

There are still (1896) residents among us who can remember the old gate and the little toll booth (ed: our emphasis) by which alone from this part of the country, communication was had with the Forest from the high road, from Ilford to London  ... it was necessary first to pay the gate keeper, who eked out his slender honorarium by the sale of cakes, nuts and ginger beer.

On the south side of the gate there were but a few houses then, one occupied by Mr Castell (see below) and another by Mr Baker (ed: what relationship, if any, this person had to the Robert Baker, above, is not clear) on the east side, and some small cottages on the west side, were all the buildings that were near the gate.

The Mr Castell the Weekly News refers to appears in the 1881 census as George Castell, a 45 year old dairyman, living at Sunny Villa ("Mr Baker" does not appear living nearby in these census returns). Doubtless, George Castell supplied, if not owned, the butcher's shop, featured in the  banner photograph of "the gate", above, and probably herded his cattle on Wanstead Flats.

George Castell lived with his wife and seven children in the house in 1881. In the next census, a decade later, he was described as "retired" and was living at 62 Capel Road.

The Weekly News reported in 1896 that the houses that the Baker and Castell families lived in were still standing, but by now "they are hidden by the sight of the shop fronts that were added to them years later "- rather as those further down Woodgrange Road are today.

So, the Weekly News, writing of the 1870's mentioned a toll-gate, but also writing of the 1870's, an old West Ham resident, Major Sharp Hume penned a vivid description of his recollections of "the gate" and its surroundings, in Notes and Queries thirty years later (see the facsimile reproduction, below).

Notes and Queries 9 August 1890

The highlighted sections clearly mention "the gate", but not as a toll-gate, suggesting, perhaps that the West Ham Board had by then taken over responsibility for the road and no longer charged travellers for using it.

It could be deduced from the above that perhaps the tolls were no longer charged from the late 1870's - as some with recollections of the early years of the decade recall the tolls, and those remembering the later years of the decade don't.

The 1896 Weekly News' article, above, acknowledged that no written history of "the gate" was in existence, even then, but referred to surviving oral history accounts of events in its past:

From time to time, imposing, even royal cavalcades, principally hunting parties, or visitors to Wanstead House (ed: see here for details of the House's history) passed through the gate and imperfect records of their pageants were handed down from generation to generation of gate-keepers, but for want of a local historian to reduce them to writing, much that would otherwise be entertaining reading would be lost to us.

Step forward Katharine Fry, daughter of prison reformer, Elizabeth and long-time resident of Forest Gate. Over a number of decades she collected fragments of local history, which Gustav Pagenstecher (see here for details) pulled together and published as a History of the parishes of East and West Ham in 1888. This fairly detailed book, however, has precious little to say about "the gate", after the area in which they both lived was named.  Quoting the relevant part in its entirety, they say:

The hamlet situated beyond the highway, known as Forest Gate ...used in its former years to consist of only two or three gentlemen's houses and the little wooden hut occupied by the keeper of the "gate to the Forest", which was generally shut, to prevent cattle straying from Wanstead Flats to the High Road.

And, that's it! E7-NowAndThen's verdict on their history of the area of their residence: poor show!

A more distant sketch of the toll house,
 Eagle and Child, with a clear view
 of the five bar gate, on the left

Most commentators and historians agree that "the gate" was demolished sometime between 1881 and 1883. This is just three or four years after the Corporation of London took over responsibility for Wanstead Flats and after the West Ham Local Board would have taken over responsibility for the upkeep of Woodgrange and Woodford Roads. The proximity of these events is probably not coincidental.

Within fifteen years the sands of time, however, had blown over much local memory of "the gate", with the Weekly News commenting :"of its ultimate fate, we have no information."

A decade later, writing in the authoritative Essex Review, John Avery asserted that:        

The old gate house at the corner of Forest Street (ed: now Brooking Road) was never a toll-house, but the residence of the keeper of the gate, which was placed across the road to prevent cattle straying off the Flats on to the highway.

And that has become the accepted version of the story: a forest gate, but not a toll-gate.

A crude chronology of "the story" of "the gate" would be, that nineteenth century witnesses declared the gate to be a toll-gate, and twentieth century "experts" dismissed the observations as fanciful. Perhaps revisionism is in order today, and we go back to believing the contemporary witnesses.

Cows on the Flats in 20th century

Piecing the evidence together, the following seems at least to be a plausible account of "the gate's" history.

A gate was in existence, on what is now Woodgrange Road from, at latest, the mid seventeenth century. It was there to keep cattle straying off what we now know as Wanstead Flats on to nearby arable and orchard land, and the main London to Colchester road.

It could well have been erected by the Lord of Woodgrange Manor to protect his crops from animal damage. He may well have charged a toll for the grazing animals to pass through the gate, on their way to market in central London, by way of recompense for the damage their hooves would have done to the road he maintained, en route to Smithfield.

Forest Gate began to develop as a settlement of some importance from the 1840's. This would have brought an increase of passenger traffic along Woodgrange Road, into Leyton and further points north. The old gate clearly, as illustrated by some of the sketches in this article, suffered from disrepair .

In 1851 Samuel Gurney (see here) bought the Hamfrith estate, including the "lordship of Woodgrange Manor" (see above)and immediately erected a new main  gate with the side, five bar, one, referred to above. He also appears to have built a gate-keeper's house - whose occupants would assist both foot and carriage passengers, while still preventing stray cattle wandering.

The gate-keeper, gate and road would all have required maintenance, A toll was charged, to cover, or at least contribute to, the costs of the upkeep of the road, gate and keeper.

When the West Ham Board took over the upkeep of the road, they would have abolished the toll, and made the toll-keeper redundant, but kept "the gate" to keep the cattle at bay. This, however was removed in the early 1880's, as it would have become a serious impediment to the increased volume of traffic. 

Cattle subsequently resumed their  wanders from the Flats down what was by then Woodgrange Road (see photo), as they  would for the next century, until an outbreak of BSE finally stopped cattle grazing on Wanstead Flats in the 1998.

Cows wandering down Woodford Road,
from grazing on Wanstead Flats, in the 1990's

Footnote: We are deeply indebted to local post-card collector and photographer, Tony Morrison, for the use of some his high resolution images to illustrate this article.  We hope to be working with Tony to provide other images from his fine collection in future articles on this blog.

39a - 49a Woodgrange Road- regeneration plans gain planning approval

This post is a summary of the regeneration plans currently out for consultation concerning 39a - 49a Woodgrange Road (between Gregg's and Barry's) - see map and photo for location, and updated as plans come to fruition.

It has been updated following planning committee discussions in March and May 2017. The committee finally approved the proposals at the second meeting. Scroll down for the details. It was updated in October 2018, as demolition work seemed imminent.

In the apparent absence of any other on-line "community forum", this blog can be used as a medium for people to share views on the proposals.  For full details of how this could work, see the footnote at the end of this article.

Most of the shops and buildings
 covered by the proposal

London Iron Works (LWI) is a medium sized east London-based firm of developers who have worked up proposals for the redevelopment of this small stretch of Woodgrange Road. They have nothing to do with the much larger and controversial plans put forward and then abandoned by Obsidian four years ago.

LWI held two consultation evenings on 21 and 22 March at Durning Hall. We attended, as did many others.  Helpful staff from the developers were on hand to answer questions, and as far as we could discern, they were very open and honest about the challenges and opportunities the proposals present.

Location map

Below is a short summary of what we discovered and felt worth sharing with others who were, perhaps, not able to attend.

We have no vested interest, whatsoever, in the outcome of the consultation, although, for the record, were impressed by the proposals. Let that, however, not inhibit those with alternative views from sharing their thoughts, below.

There are currently 12 retail units affected by the proposal.  They, and the accommodation behind, would be demolished.  The accommodation is largely officially vacant, although it is believed there are a number of squatters in situ.

The proposal would be to "revitalise" the shops. There would be no guarantee of tenure for the existing shops in the new development, and in any case they would have to close or move for at least 12 - 15 months around the rebuilding period (see anticipated timescale, below).

Artist's impression, from the south

Rents in the new shops will be considerably higher than those currently paid by the present occupiers.  This is likely to be a significant issue for Barry's, the butcher, for example.

The proposal is to construct around 60 residential units.  The exact mix will be subject to negotiation between developer and the council.  It would, for example, be in the financial interests of the developer to only build one-bedroom flats for sale.
  
The council, however, will wish to see some larger properties (2 and 3 bedrooms) to ensure a good demographic balance of families, singles etc in the development and also to guarantee that there is an appropriate mix of social and owner-occupied properties. The developers accept this, and negotiations between council and developers will determine the final outcome mixture.

Artist's impression, from Earlham Grove:
 flats on far right of drawing representation
 of separate development plan - see text

All, or almost all, units will have balconies, most of which will be south facing.
There will be some recreational space (roof gardens etc) in the development and provision for cycle parking.

There could be some consequential modifications to the local road lay-out and this will doubtless feature in the mix of negotiations between the developer and the council.

As mentioned above, London Iron Works, the developers are an east-end firm specialising in medium size developments, like this one, that aim to fit in with local community needs and are empathetic to the local architecture (so no 19 storey building proposals, here).

They are working with Newham council on other developments in Manor Park - near the railway station and in East Ham, in what was the old Co-op site (the car park next to the Denmark Arms).

Artist's impression, from corner of Hampton Road

Although they aim to be empathetic with Victorian architecture, they are building in and for the 21st century, so will not seek to replicate 1880s buildings.  In trying to be sympathetic, they will pay due regard to the local skyline, and brick work, for example.

Little is known about what is likely to happen to the former "Obsidian lands", although it is inconceivable, with the imminence of Crossrail, there will not be significant development proposals coming along soon.

It does seem likely that there will be a development, built around the same time as this Woodgrange Road one, a little behind it in Earlham Grove. It will be in the land boarded by blue hoardings, between Barry's and the Community Garden.

Artist's impression: front elevation

We understand that London Iron Works was interested in developing this too, but found negotiations around acquisition and planning extremely difficult. Instead, it would appear that the Council-back and owned Red Doors company is likely to do the construction and Swan Housing, who effectively run the council's outsourced housing management function, will operate the development.

We idly ask whether these council "insiders" found negotiating life for the plot as difficult as London Iron Works seemed to. You may smell a rat, we couldn't possibly comment.

It is interesting, however, that although this Earlham Grove development is being advanced by those with great insight into the local authority, its ways and, presumably the local community, they have not found it desirable or necessary to seek the views of the affected public on their proposals, as London Iron Works has.

Artist's impression of a possible floor plan

If you would like to comment to London Iron Works directly about their proposals, the e.mail address is WoodgrangeRoad@yourshout.org. Their freefone number is 0800 458 6976.

Anticipated timescale for Woodgrange Road proposals

Spring 2016 - exhibition and local consultation

Summer 2016 - having taken consultation on board, submit development scheme for planning discussion/consent

December 2016 - planning approval, or rejection.  If consent:

January 2017 - give one year's notice to quit to existing shops and tenants

January 2018 - begin construction work

Jan - March 2019 - completion of project: new owners/tenants move in.

Update - March 2017

Forest Gate North Councillor Rachel Tripp provided an update on progress with this application in her extremely good and detailed branch newsletter of 1 March 2017. It is quoted, verbatim, below.  A decision on the planning application was deferred by the Council in February, because of:

Concerns about parking, but I and other members expressed a number of other concerns based on the design we saw that night, including the design of the building, the density, the lack of family accommodation and the lack of affordable housing on the site.

I am not opposed to new developments, I'm not opposed to sympathetic modern design on a Victorian high street and I think this space on Woodgrange Road is a prime site for something that offers some retail and some residential, but I was glad that this iteration of the application was deferred and hope that the developer will go away and do some more work before it comes back.

Based on this, it would seem that the scheme will be at least three months behind the projected time-table outlined above, even if it is eventually approved in some form.

Update - May 2017

The planning application was approved, in an amended form by the Council on 16 May. The Committee document seems to be unavailable for access on the council website at present.

The proposal offered some new "mock-ups", pictured bellow. These are only illustrative, however, as the developer must seek final approval from the council's planners for the materials and colours of the facades they chose to use.  The green higher floors in the mock-ups below, for example, could be rejected for different colours and/or materials further down the building process.

Developers' CGI mock-ups of how the
 buildings might look, after Newham Council
 approval of the application

NB - the colour and materials in the final
 development will be subject to ratification
 by Newham's planners

Salient features of the approved development would appear to be:

• The development will only be 7 stories high
• There will be 75 flats in the development, with only 3 parking bays and 112 bike rack spaces. The parking bays will not be allocated to individual tenants.
• There will be no "affordable housing" in the development. Instead the developer will sell them all at market value. At Newham Council's request, instead of building any "affordable housing" in the development, the builders would pay the council £1.5m, which it will use to construct "affordable housing" elsewhere (presumably in Newham).
• Although not directly a feature of the development, local shoppers may be pleased to hear that Barry's, the butchers, have found alternative premises nearby.

Update October 2018

Eighteen months on from the original public consultation, referred to above, it looks as though demolition work is about to start on the site. Construction staff began the process of erecting barriers between the properties and the public highway on 8 October 2018.

Barriers being erected between the
buildings facing construction and the public
footpath on 8 October 2018

The work is about nine months behind the schedule envisaged by the original developers. The delay can be explained by the fact that there has been a change in developers during that period and the last tenants of the existing buildings did not vacate the premises until May this year.

The shops completely cleared and tenants
 in the flats above moved on, by June 2018

The new developer/builders are Gateway Housing Association, who also own the cleared and vacant block behind this Woodgrange Road one.  See here, for details of that Earlham Grove development.

The fact that one organisation owns both sites should simplify construction, minimise local inconvenience, avoid squabbles between developers and make life easier of local people during the 15-18 month construction period.

Gateway Housing Association began life as the Bethnal Green Housing Association in 1926 - and still manage their first block!

They grew steadily over the next seventy years, and merged with other east London Housing Associations in the process. They changed their name to Gateway Housing Association in 2008. See here for their website.

Their stock is still predominantly in Tower Hamlets, but they have expanded more into Hackney and Newham over recent years.  They currently manage 3,000 homes, the majority for social rent. They plan to build 500 homes over the next three years.

The 80 flats proposed for the Earlham Grove development and the 75 in this development will constitute about a third of their building plans over the next three years - and so be a substantial invetsment for the Housing Association, who have a very real vested interest in ensuring that their future housing stock is built to a high standard.


Woodgrange Road will be transformed over the next 18 - 24 months, with the promised comletion of Crossrail within a year, these two developments at or near completion and the anticpated go-ahead for 33 flats at the Methodist church, opposite (see here).

138 Earlham Grove

No sooner had demolition work began on 39a - 49a Woodgrange Road than a new set of planning proposals hit the desks of the Planning Department.

They were for a relatively small development in Earlham Grove, between the significant Gateway development (see above), covering nos 140 - 150 and the Community Garden, at 136. Full details can be found from the council's planning site, here.

Savill's propose to build two blocks like this  - one
 behind the other on the site of 138 Earlham Grove.

The proposals for 138 Earlham Grove were submitted by Savills, a long-time property agent and developer. They would like to build two six-storey blocks on what is currently a brownfield site, providing a total of 36 apartments.

They are honest enough to admit that the proposal does not fit the Council's desired criteria, in terms of social mix and sizes of flats, They are at pains to point out, however, that their plan to construct 21 one-bed flats (58% of the total), four two-bed flats (11% of the total) and eleven three-bed flats (31% of the total) comes closer to meeting the council's desired mix than the Woodgrange Road development, for which demolition work has just started.

The rapid activity over recent days in the Woodgrange Road/Earlham Grove area - as CrossRail's even postponed arrival becomes more real - begs three questions:

1. How long before their is a serious planning proposal to redevelop Durning Hall and adjacent buildings, that was central to the much derided Obsidian proposals of five years ago? Such a scheme would dwarf, in scale, existing three, the 200-odd flat, developments already on the drawing board for Woodgrange Road/Earlham Grove.
2. Will the Council bend its knee to plans that seek to build higher than the rapidly developing norm of six-storey blocks in the area, for any new proposal, under the guise that the block/s will be a focal/landmark development for Forest Gate - coming, as it/they would next to the station and perceived heart of the area?
3. How much longer can the Community Gardens survive on their current site?  Developers are moving in closer, and the land - council-owned - is on lease to the Garden for less than a year now, under the terms of the original agreement.  

Watch this space for a public row!

Footnote: using this thread as a discussion forum

At the end of this article is a Comments box. Would-be contributors are invited to post their thoughts and share them with other local people. (This site gets over 250 hits per day, so people may feel it is a good vehicle to act as a discussion forum).

If you wish to contribute, simply fill in the comments box, below.  You have the option of leaving your name and or a pseudonym, or posting anonymously. Your posting e.mail address will be known by the site.  We undertake to share it with nobody, if that is your choice.

At the foot of the comment box there is a check box, by ticking this, you will receive an automatic e.mail  every time somebody responds to the thread of comments, and you will, of course be free to reply to those, as you wish.

We guarantee that there will be no editorial interference with responses on this forum (which was not the case on other local forums at the time of the Obsidian proposals), expect for posts which are: abusive, potentially libellous, or discriminatory on grounds of ethnicity, gender, age, ability, religion etc.

Posts that are totally irrelevant to the subject will be deleted and posts that are excessively verbose will be summarised and then only published with the explicit approval of the original contributor.

The forum will be open to those supporting and opposing the proposals . The developers, are invited to contribute and answer questions etc, should they wish; although we are anxious that this does not simply become a PR medium for them.

If this suggestion works as an effective discussion forum: fantastic.  We may adopt the approach for other topics of local controversy on this site, in the future. If it doesn't work, fine!